agobard

Dear Poseidonios,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Mine follows.

Sorry about creating another thread, I should have looked before posting this one...

Now, about the phenomenon itself and the interesting quote you cite. This gives me the opportunity to make an addition to my first post.
I should have said it in the first place but, as a Historian, I am more interested in documenting the historical evolution of the theme rather than to determine whether it is real or not, be it an atmospheric, optical or even unexplained phenomenon. My study is more one of folklore if you prefer, and as such, the drosoulites, whether real or made up, remains as a subject of research and can be studied on the same grounds as any other related folkloric theme, such as the Wild Hunt which I was referring to in my first post.
I am particularly attentive to this last theme in relation to the drosoulites because I gather that both share many similarities. The interesting part is that, while the Wild Hunt theme is mainly found in Northern Europe at an earlier age (Medieval and Renaissance mostly), the appearance of an other version of the theme in Greece at this later date is most interesting to a Historian.
This is why I mostly interested in gathering the textual evidence that would help me date approximately the time when the story of the drosoulites began to appear. I believe, but this is mostly speculation for now without more documentation, that it did not appear before the early 20th century, possibly a decade earlier in the late 1890s. A hint to support this is the fact, which I find most puzzling, that the story of the drosoulites is not mentioned in Nikolas Politis' famous book, Paroimiai kai paradoseis toy Ellhnikou Laou, published in Athens in 1894. Politis had gone to great length documenting such stories and I find it hard to believe that he missed the drosoulites of Frangokastello. Add to this the fact that the drosoulites might be linked to a patriotic feeling following the independence of Crete at around the same period. All in all, I guess there are some interesting tracks to be followed as to get to an understanding of where the story originated and how it developed into popular culture.

In this regard, I would appreciate any help in getting the documents I mentioned in my first post. Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Yannis Deliyannis,
Paris, France.

Greetings,

First of all, sorry for writing in English. Being of Greek origin myself, I can, if necessary, write in Greek but I am writing from outside Greece and it is really a hassle to use a Latin keyboard to write fully in Greek. You can answer me in Greek though, that is not a problem.
I come with some questions about the phenomenon of the "drosoulites" of Frangokastello which without doubts, is well known on this forum.
I am currently doing some researches about Medieval and Renaissance celestial prodigia in Europe and documenting the much frequents accounts of appearances of armies in the sky. This theme is quite frequent among the prodigy literature of 16th and 17th western Europe and can eventually be traced back to Greek and Roman similar mentions in Antiquity.
In this regard, the drosoulites phenomenon of Frangokastello is of high interest to me as it shares many similarities with older western european accounts of celestial battles as well as with the folklore theme of the Wild Hunt (chasse fantastique, Menie Hellequin) of Northern Europe.
While trying to document the phenomenon, I must say that despite many efforts, I couldn't find much textual evidence as to when the phenomenon began to be reported.
It appears that the first clearly dated textual mention of the "drosoulites" goes back to 1928 when a report was sent by one of the descendants of Hatzimihalis Dalianis, namely Christos Dalianis, to the President of the Athenian Etaireia Psychikwn Erevnwn, Angelos Tanagras. An article followed along with report and was published in the January 1929 issue of the society's journal Psychikai Erevnai under the title "Oi drosoulitai, to orama twn Sfakiwn".
Unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity to retrieve this article from the National Library of Athens during my last stay but my guess is that most of the main features of the story that spread afterward originate from that article.
Does anyone happen to have this article handy or have the possibility to have it retrieved from the Ethniki Bibliothiki in Athens ? I would really love to see this article as I think it is of high interest for understanding how the story spread and later developed.
Another study seems to have been made by an Englishman by the name of G. Baker who had heard about the phenomenon while staying in the region of Frangokastello. I could not find much information about this G. Baker except the fact that he is possibly linked to the Botanical Society of London and wrote about the phenomenon before 1961 (his study is mentioned in an article published in the newspaper Taxydromos (May 24, 1961, p. 3).
I'm also in the hope that someone here might eventually have more information on this G. Baker.
Mr. Andonis Thoma Vasilakis from Crete wrote in his article about the drosoulites (here) that Manoussos Koundouros, the famous Cretan political figure of the beginning of the 20th century, had been witness of the phenomenon. Does anyone know a clear source for this ? I could not find any.
Among other questions I have about the textual sources documenting the phenomenon, I have some interrogations about the sources of the stories about the turkish soldiers who supposedly witnessed the phenomenon in 1890 and about the German garrison in 1942. Where does these stories originate? Once again, Mr. Vasilakis says about the German vision of 1942 that a report was sent to the authorities in Chania and that a study was made. Do we have clear sources on this ?
The last of my questions is about the mantinada that is so frequently cited : "M'akomh kai to shmero, stis dekafta tou Mah..." Does anyone know more about this piece of poetry? Mostly about the approximate date it was composed ?
All in all, as you might understand, I come with a lot of questions for which I hope someone here can help me find some answers. I am currently residing in France and it is hard for me to check these documents from here without some help.
I find the phenomenon highly interesting and found that it hard to find concrete documents about it apart from hearsay. I am in the hope that someone in this forum can help me document this fascinating story.

Best regards,

Yannis Deliyannis,
Paris, France.