- ΟΝΕΙΡΑ - .-= ΤΟ ΠΑΡΑΞΕΝΟ =-.

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ΚΑΘΕ ΦΟΡΑ ΝΙΩΘΩ ΟΤΙ ΜΟΥ ΔΙΝΕΤΕ ΚΑΠΟΙΟ ΣΤΟΙΧΕΙΟ ΑΠΟ ΤΑ ΟΝΕΙΡΑ ΠΟΥ ΒΛΕΠΩ.

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respect

Τα όνειρα κατά το μεγαλύτερο μέρος αντικατοπτρίζουν τον ψυχισμό μας.
Υπάρχει όμως και ένα μικρό ποσοστό που είναι προφητικά.
Θα σου πω ένα απλό παράδειγμα. Προχθές το βράδυ είδα ότι ο άντρας μου κι εγώ διασκεδάζαμε, είμασταν πάρα πολύ χαρούμενοι και γελάγαμε συνεχώς. Στα όνειρα αυτό συμβολίζει το αντίθετο. Χθες το πρωί βρήκαμε νεκρό τον σκύλο της πεθεράς μου στον κήπο μας από φόλα και πάω να σκάσω από στενοχώρια και οργή.
Δυστυχώς ή ευτυχώς μερικά όνειρα μας προειδοποιούν για το μέλλον, αλλά δυστυχώς ή ευτυχώς δεν είμαστε σε θέση να τα ερμηνεύσουμε σωστά και να αλλάξουμε το μέλλον.

Καταρχην να σας χαιρετησω ολους,

Δεν εχω αποψη για το αν η αιτια για τα ονειρα σου ειναι οι μελετη των αρχαιων. Αλλα αυτο που ξερω και μπορω να πω ειναι κανενα ονειρο δεν ειναι αληθινο. Απλα ισως εσυ ετυχε να το δεις και να το συνδυασεις αυτοματα με την μελετη των αρχαιων και απο εκει και περα μετα απο καποια μελετη τους(των αρχαιων) υποσυνειδητα να βλεπεις αυτα τα ονειρα.

Σασα

Ευμαινίδες.. πρόκειται για το τρίτο μέρος της τριλογίας Ορέστεια του Αισχύλου
Οι τραγωδίες οι οποίες σώθηκαν εξ ολοκλήρου είναι οι εξής : Ικέτιδες , Πέρσες , Επτά επϊ Θήβας , Προμηθεύς Δεσμώτης , και η μόνη σωζόμενη τριλογία , Ορέστεια ( Αγαμέμνων , Χοηφόρες , Ευμαινίδες )

όσο για το Ο νοών, νοεί βρήκα ένα κείμενο του Αριστοτέλη "περί ψυχής" και αναφέρει την έκφραση αυτή..παραθέτω το link..

http://genesis.ee.auth.gr/agper/aristotle/psyxhs/3_04.html

δεν ξέρω αν βοήθησα .... ίσως να σου έδωσα στοιχεία που ήδη ξέρεις.. απλά επειδή μου έχει τύχει και εμένα να ακούω πράγματα στον ύπνο μου και να μουν κάνουν εντύπωση.... και ξέρω πως είναι πολύ σημαντικό να βρίσκεις στοιχεία για κάτι τέτοια...

Ευχαριστώ .. πάντα με φιλική διάθεση..

Η ομορφιά απλώνεται.....

όταν αργότερα το έψαξα βρήκα πως ήταν το όνομα μίας πριγκίπισας ή βασίλισσας της Βουργουνδίας... η οποία ήταν παντρεμένη με τον Ζίγκφριντ, ο οποίος ήταν κάτι σαν τον δικό μας Αχιλλέα, με μόνη διαφορά πως το δικό του τρωτό σημείο δεν ήταν η φτέρνα αλλά ο ώμος του!!!
Αυτή η ιστορία είναι μύθος του βορρά. Αλλά αργότερα που το έψαξα βρήκα πως αυτός ο μύθος βασιζόταν σε κάτι αλιθηνό.. η Γκρίμχιλντ υπήρχε και ο Ζίγκφριντ νομίζω .. από την γεννιά Νιπελούνγκεν...

Αν γνωρίζει κάποιος ό,τιδήποτε για αυτό το θέμα θα ήθελα να μάθω...

Ευχαριστώ .. πάντα με φιλική διάθεση

Η ομορφιά απλώνεται.....

Πολύ περίεργο το όνειρο σου όντως.
Η Γρίμχιλντ σχετίζεται με τον μύθο των Νιμπελουγκεν και την ιστορία με τον χρυσό που εκλάπη από τις νύμφες του Ρήνου για να φτιαχτεί ένα δαχτυλίδι. Η Γρίμχιλντ ήταν καταδικασμένη να κοιμάται (κάτι σαν την ωραία κοιμωμένη) μέσα σε έναν δακτύλιο από φωτιά μέχρι που ο Ζίγκφριντ την έσωσε.

Δυστυχώς δεν θυμάμαι περισσότερα αυτήν την στιγμή αλλά θα το ψάξω. Νομίζω ότι΄η ιστορία αυτή είναι ολόκληρο έπος της μυθολογίας της Β. Ευρώπης κάτι σαν την δική μας Ιλιάδα. Επίσης είναι και μία πολύ ωραία όπερα του Βάγκνερ.

Βρήκα δύο εκδοχές του μύθου και voila :

XL. h. The Nibelungen Lied

ONE of the oldest myths of the Teutonic race is found in the great national epic of the Nibelungen Lied, which dates back to the prehistoric era when Wotan, Frigga, Thor, Loki, and the other gods and goddesses were worshipped in the German forests. The epic is divided into two parts, the first of which tells how Siegfried, the youngest of the kings of the Netherlands, went to Worms, to ask in marriage the hand of Kriemhild, sister of Günther, King of Burgundy. While he was staying with Günther, Siegfried helped the Burgundian king to secure as his wife Brunhild, queen of Issland. The latter had announced publicly that he only should be her husband who could beat her in hurling a spear, throwing a huge stone, and in leaping. Siegfried, who possessed a cloak of invisibility, aided Günther in these three contests, and Brunhild became his wife. In return for these services, Günther gave Siegfried his sister Kriemhild in marriage. 1
After some time had elapsed, Siegfried and Kriemhild went to visit Günther, when the two women fell into a dispute about the relative merits of their husbands. Kriemhild, to exalt Siegfried, boasted that it was to the latter that Günther owed his victories and his wife. Brunhild, in great anger, employed Hagan, liegeman of Günther, to murder Siegfried. In the epic Hagan is described as follows:
“Well-grown and well-compacted was that redoubted guest;
Long were his legs and sinewy, and deep and broad his chest;
His hair, that once was sable, with gray was dashed of late;
Most terrible his visage, and lordly was his gait.”
—Nibelungen Lied, stanza 1789.
2
This Achilles of German romance stabbed Siegfried between the shoulders, as the unfortunate King of the Netherlands was stooping to drink from a brook during a hunting expedition. 3
The second part of the epic relates how, thirteen years later, Kriemhild married Etzel, King of the Huns. After a time, she invited the King of Burgundy, with Hagan and many others, to the court of her husband. A fearful quarrel was stirred up in the banquet hall, which ended in the slaughter of all the Burgundians but Günther and Hagan. These two were taken prisoners and given to Kriemhild, who with her own hand cut off the heads of both. For this bloody act of vengeance Kriemhild was herself slain by Hildebrand, a magician and champion, who in German mythology holds a place to an extent corresponding to that of Nestor in the Greek mythology. 4

THE NIBELUNGEN HOARD

THIS was a mythical mass of gold and precious stones which Siegfried obtained from the Nibelungs, the people of the north whom he had conquered and whose country he had made tributary to his own kingdom of the Netherlands. Upon his marriage, Siegfried gave the treasure to Kriemhild as her wedding portion. After the murder of Siegfried, Hagan seized it and buried it secretly beneath the Rhine at Lochham, intending to recover it at a future period. The hoard was lost forever when Hagan was killed by Kriemhild. Its wonders are thus set forth in the poem:
“’Twas as much as twelve huge wagons in four whole nights and days
Could carry from the mountain down to the salt sea bay;
Though to and fro each wagon thrice journeyed every day.

“It was made up of nothing but precious stones and gold;
Were all the world bought from it, and down the value told,
Not a mark the less would there be left than erst there was, I ween.”
—Nibelungen Lied, XIX.
5
Whoever possessed the Nibelugen hoard were termed Nibelungers. Thus at one time certain people of Norway were so called. When Siegfried held the treasure he received the title “King of the Nibelungers.” 6

Και η εκδοχή του Βάγκνερ :

XL. i. Wagner’s Nibelungen Ring

THOUGH Richard Wagner’s music-drama of the Nibelungen Ring bears some resemblance to the ancient German epic, it is a wholly independent composition and was derived from various old songs and sagas, which the dramatist wove into one great harmonious story. The principal source was the Volsunga Saga, while lesser parts were taken from the Elder Edda and the Younger Edda, and others from the Nibelungen Lied, the Ecklenlied, and other Teutonic folklore. 1
In the drama there are at first only four distinct races,—the gods, the giants, the dwarfs, and the nymphs. Later, by a special creation, there come the valkyrie and the heroes. The gods are the noblest and highest race, and dwell first in the mountain meadows, later in the palace of Valhalla on the heights. The giants are a great and strong race, but lack wisdom; they hate what is noble, and are enemies of the gods; they dwell in caves near the earth’s surface. The dwarfs, or nibelungs, are black uncouth pigmies, hating the good, hating the gods; they are crafty and cunning, and dwell in the bowels of the earth. The nymphs are pure, innocent creatures of the water. The valkyrie are daughters of the gods, but mingled with a mortal strain; they gather dead heroes from the battle-fields and carry them to Valhalla. The heroes are children of the gods, but also mingled with a mortal strain; they are destined to become at last the highest race of all, and to succeed the gods in the government of the world. 2
The principal gods are Wotan, Loki, Donner, and Froh. The chief giants are Fafner and Fasolt, brothers. The chief dwarfs are Alberich and Mime, brothers, and later Hagan, son of Alberich. The chief nymphs are the Rhine-daughters, Flosshilda, Woglinda, and Wellgunda. There are nine Valkyrie, of whom Brunhild is the leading one. 3
Wagner’s story of the Ring may be summarized as follows: 4
A hoard of gold exists in the depths of the Rhine, guarded by the innocent Rhine-maidens. Alberich, the dwarf, forswears love to gain this gold. He makes it into a magic ring. It gives him all power, and he gathers by it a vast amount of treasures. 5
Meanwhile Wotan, chief of the gods, has engaged the giants to build for him a noble castle, Valhalla, from whence to rule the world, promising in payment Freya, goddess of youth and love. But the gods find they cannot spare Freya, as they are dependent on her for their immortal youth. Loki, called upon to provide a substitute, tells of Alberich’s magic ring and other treasure. Wotan goes with Loki, and they steal the ring and the golden hoard from Alberich, who curses the ring and lays the curse on all who shall henceforth possess it. The gods give the ring and the treasure to the giants as a substitute for Freya. The curse at once begins. One giant, Fafner, kills his brother to get all, and transforms himself into a dragon to guard his wealth. The gods enter Valhalla over the rainbow bridge. This ends the first part of the drama, called the Rhine-Gold. 6
The second part, the Valkyrie, relates how Wotan still covets the ring. He cannot take it himself, for he has given his word to the giants. He stands or falls by his word. So he devises an artifice to get the ring. He will get a hero-race to work for him and recover the ring and the treasures. Siegmund and Sieglinda are twin children of this new race. Sieglinda is carried off as a child and is forced into marriage with Hunding. Siegmund comes, and unknowingly breaks the law of marriage, but wins Nothung, the great sword, and a bride. Brunhild, chief of the Valkyrie, is commissioned by Wotan at the instance of Fricka, goddess of marriage, to slay him for his sin. She disobeys and tries to save him, but Hunding, helped by Wotan, slays him. Sieglinda, however, about to bear the free hero, to be called Siegfried, is saved by Brunhild, and hid in the forest. Brunhild herself is punished by being made a mortal woman. She is left sleeping on the mountains with a wall of fire around her which only a hero can penetrate. 7
The drama continues with the story of Siegfried, which opens with a scene in the smithy between Mime the dwarf and Siegfried. Mime is welding a sword, and Siegfried scorns him. Mime tells him something of his mother, Sieglinda, and shows him the broken pieces of his father’s sword. Wotan comes and tells Mime that only one who has no fear can remake the sword. Now Siegfried knows no fear and soon remakes the sword Nothung. Wotan and Alberich come to where the dragon Fafner is guarding the ring. They both long for it, but neither can take it. Soon Mime comes bringing Siegfried with the mighty sword. Fafner comes out, but Siegfried slays him. Happening to touch his lips with the dragon’s blood, he understands the language of the birds. They tell him of the ring. He goes and gets it. Siegfried now has possession of the ring, but it is to bring him nothing of happiness, only evil. It is to curse love and finally bring death. The birds also tell him of Mime’s treachery. He slays Mime. He longs for some one to love. The birds tell him of the slumbering Brunnhilda, whom he finds and marries. 8
The Dusk of the Gods portrays at the opening the three norns or fates weaving and measuring the thread of destiny. It is the beginning of the end. The perfect pair, Siegfried and Brunhild, appear in all the glory of their life, splendid ideals of manhood and womanhood. But Siegfried goes out into the world to achieve deeds of prowess. He gives her the Nibelungen ring to keep as a pledge of his love till his return. Meanwhile Alberich also has begotten a son, Hagan, to achieve for him the possession of the ring. He is partly of the Gibichung race, and works through Günther and Gutrune, half-brother and half-sister to him. They beguile Siegfried to them, give him a magic draught which makes him forget Brunhild and fall in love with Gutrune. Under this same spell, he offers to bring Brunhild for wife to Günther. Now is Valhalla full of sorrow and despair. The gods fear the end. Wotan murmurs, “O that she would give back the ring to the Rhine.” But Brunhild will not give it up,—it is now her pledge of love. Siegfried comes, takes the ring, and Brunhild is now brought to the Rhine castle of the Gibichungs, but Siegfried under the spell does not love her. She is to be wedded to Günther. She rises in wrath and denounces Siegfried. But at a hunting banquet Siegfried is given another magic draught, remembers all, and is slain by Hagan by a blow in the back, as he calls on Brunhild’s name in love. Then comes the end. The body of Siegfried is burned on a funeral pyre, a grand funeral march is heard, and Brunhild rides into the flames and sacrifices herself for love’s sake; the ring goes back to the Rhine-daughters; and the old world—of the gods of Valhalla, of passion and sin—is burnt up with flames, for the gods have broken moral law, and coveted power rather than love, gold rather than truth, and therefore must perish. They pass, and a new era, the reign of love and truth, has begun. 9
Those who wish to study the differences in the legends of the Nibelungen Lied and the Nibelungen Ring, and the way in which Wagner used his ancient material, are referred to Professor W. C. Sawyer’s book on “Teutonic Legends in the Nibelungen Lied and the Nibelungen Ring,” where the matter is treated in full detail. For a very thorough and clear analysis of the Ring as Wagner gives it, with a study of the musical motifs, probably nothing is better for general readers than the volume “The Epic of Sounds,” by Freda Winworth. The more scholarly work of Professor Lavignac is indispensable for the student of Wagner’s dramas. There is much illuminating comment on the sources and materials in “Legends of the Wagner Drama” by J. L. Weston.

Ακολούθησα την συμβουλή κάποιου που μου είπε με το που ξυπνάω το πρωί να γράφω τα όνειρα που είδα και με τον καιρό παρατηρώντας θα μπορούσα να βρω και τους αποσυμβολισμούς τους...

Όντως είναι μία πολύ καλή άσκηση...την συνιστώ. Θα δείτε ότι και πολλά απο τα όνειρα που μας φαίνονται ασήμαντα ίσως να έχουν κατι να μας πουν :)